Double Efficiency By Automating With David Chevalier
Build Live Give. Mentoring With Paul Higgins
Welcome to the Build Live Give podcast. If it’s your first time listening, you love what you hear, please subscribe if you’re a regular, thanks for your support at any time. You can ask me or the guests questions through paulhigginsmentoring.com/questions. You can take notes by all means. And there’s plenty to take in this episode, but it will be fully transcribed for you and it’s available in the show notes. So the person today was doing some research as part of his university studies, and they had to interview lots of people using LinkedIn, and they were manually, you know, swapping data around. And Frank came out and said: – Why are you doing that? And they said, well, what do you mean? That’s the only way there’s no open API. Like we all wanted that. And he said, well, I’ve found a way. And sure enough, he did, saved them huge amounts of time.
And then they switched from the project they were doing into this. And now they’ve got over 300 customers and are scaling around the world and Armour is one of the customers. I absolutely love it.
So why listen?
- It’s going to save you a huge amount of time on LinkedIn, everyone wants that.
- It allows team visibility because on LinkedIn at the moment, the team can’t see everything that’s happening with this product you can.
- Why LinkedIn bans certain products or automations I should say, or account and how to avoid this.
Also, the guest is giving a 14-day trial at the end of the podcast as well. So stay tuned for that one. So I’ll hand you over now to David Chevalier from leadjet.io And believe me. He says his name a lot better than me in his French accent.
Yes. Hi, nice to meet you all. And it's great to be here. Thanks a lot, Paul.
So all your friends and family that are listening to this, can you just pronounce your name so that they also know who I'm talking to?
Yes, exactly. So it's 'Chevalier' I know it's French, so it's hard to pronounce. I'm actually German. I have a French name, but I started now, a company in France together with French friend and co-founder Roman
Excellent. Excellent. Well, most people don't understand what I'm saying at any point because of my Australian accent. So it won't really matter. It's nice to have a lovely sounding accent on the podcast versus mine. Now, I fell in love with your product. It must've been around six months ago now, and I've been dying to have you on the podcast, but when people say, Hey, David, what do you do to help salespeople around the world? How do you best describe that?
Yeah, so first, when we say very broad it's that we help people that day-to-day sales activities, especially when it comes to administrative tasks meaning that they need to clean their CRM, they need to fill the CRM's needs. We kind of automate it and, thanks to that we have an integration to LinkedIn. So we have a two way sync between LinkedIn and your CRM. And to save you time, not to copy and paste between platforms, not to do the tab switching all the time, getting you more time to actually do selling. That's what we do.
You know, as they always say, it's great for somebody to tell their story, but it's even better if someone tells it for you. So for everyone listening and watching right now, just give you my quick scenario. So we do a lot of work on LinkedIn since 2019. I really doubled down on it for those that listen often, after my transplant. And I realized that now my team is wasting so much time. So we had an agency that helped agencies around the world, implement sales, CRMs, and, like Copper PipeDrive HubSpot, all of them. And everyone used to ask me:- Hey, is there a tool or a way that this can integrate, surely it can, and I'd sort of get angry and I'm like, LinkedIn's got a closed API. There's nothing we can really do about it. And I don't know anything.
So that was the situation I was in. Look, it's not a life-threatening situation on the transplant, but it was very, very annoying cut and paste and the team would forget and you'd always be... you know, and it's the time searching for information, you had five minutes to get ready for a meeting and it's like, you're not at your best because you're trying to find all this information rather than actually properly preparing. So that was sort of the situation I had. How similar is that to the ones that you've heard about. David?
Yes, pretty similar. I can also maybe give you a quick introduction to my situation and why I first started this, because we had exactly the same problem. So we are not coming from sales. Also, I was active on LinkedIn before. Yes. But more like, looking out for new job opportunities. I was working in a bank for like five years and used LinkedIn on a daily basis just to inform, looking through the feed like everyone does. But I was never kind of in this sales aspect on LinkedIn and social selling, which is now becoming more and more, kind of important. Also we have more and more people working remotely. So we have more sales happening, actually virtual. So therefore LinkedIn is a great, open database. We have 750 million users on LinkedIn. So I'm on no other platform. We can have more information about people's CV's, professional life than on LinkedIn. And it's not banned in China for instance, which is also a great benefit. So, to get back to the story, Roman and I last year, we're still in our study program in Berkeley and you ask and, we needed to do customer discovery. So customer discovery in the Bay area, meaning, we needed to reach out to people, ask for kind of a coffee chat, for a specific project we did back then. And it was working great. First of all, we reached out to people and we got replies. So we're like, okay, people who never saw us and we never spoke before unknown people, they wanted to meet with us.
So that's great. First I think it's also the Bay area, which is a very great environment. So we started to reach out to customer discovery and for our program we needed to show after four weeks. Okay. We talked with so many people, we met with these people and these were the results. We needed to capture this. So we use the CRM and as we are coming from Europe, we know kind of the CRM, but the CRM has come from the US. So, way more people use the CRM system in the US way longer. So we used HubSpot because HubSpot was free and it's a great CRM and, like the business people like me and also we started with three co-founders at the beginning, the two of us, we did it manually, like the copy and pasting all the time and it was a pain in the, yeah know, and so that was really a problem. But also a friend I made Omar, who's kind of the technical guy, in our team and our co-founder he started to develop something on his own on the side and he was like, coming to us saying - Hey guys, why do you do it manually? And why do you copy and paste it makes no sense. And he just made for himself kind of a very easy and basic automated funnel where he got all his interactions, his messages, and automatically saved it to HubSpot. These then started customer discovery based on desktop, not on our own project and that's how we got into each app. And that's how we started from there, last year in March - May when the COVID crisis came up and, yeah that's the backstory.
Yeah. Well look, and I can't tell you, nearly any person I speak to is in sales. That's using LinkedIn because that's predominantly what my customers and clients do. They're all just blown away. Now. I worked for Coca Cola for 18 years, and I think at one stage we had 126 different sales CRM. So when you say American, you know, the core of American Sales was the Coke company, right? So I feel like it's a religion for me using this Sales CRM, but, we obviously got a secret formula and we didn't give it out, but, I don't want you to bare all your secrets here on the show. A few would be great, but - How did Omar get into this locked API that seemed like no one else could?
Yes, so first of all, it's very tricky to understand the LinkedIn system. We also have tooling and systems. We have to standard LinkedIn and we have a LinkedIn sales navigator, which is purely for the salespeople. We also have, of course, a recruiter on LinkedIn and then kind of other systems on the side, they look all so different. So it seems like they're from another era and it seems like there are more updating at least what you get on the front face, the standard LinkedIn, then their sales navigator. It looks like a bit older now. So first of all, it was a bit tricky to integrate to both because we wanted to integrate to both, standard LinkedIn is great, but salespeople are obviously on sales navigator and we saw sales navigator is great, but we thought about, okay, we can make it, maybe with a easier UX for salespeople.
We can make it maybe a bit more adaptable to sales. So let's say like this. And so we started, and it took us four months basically to get the first basic version out. It was just about a Chrome extension. We were a Chrome extension, showing here and there are some buttons, like purple buttons. So when you get to download the Chrome extension, you will find these purple buttons around. And the first basic version was just about that. You can add one click, from a profile page of a person to your CRM. And this fully enriched it. So, with all the contact information was the email address, and even the company, we created at the same time. So it's basically 10 to 12 steps. Normally you need to do it manually and you just save. And from there on of course, we needed to be kind of always adaptable to our system because we are an interface on top of LinkedIn. So, of course when the LinkedIn interface changes, we need to change quickly as well.
And how often does it change, David?
Yeah, it's not often that there are major changes. Recently they had a new kind of design, but it's a rollout for certain countries and they don't roll out for everyone at the same time. But this new design also cost in the beginning problem for us, because then the button was not displayed in the right place. One functionality was not working. So this was especially at the beginning something we needed to go through, but we always need to pass our extension for review, for the Google Chrome store. So Google Chrome needs to reveal the extension, and this normally takes two days maximum, but in COVID crisis it took... I think three weeks. So, at the very beginning we had three weeks. Yes, it was really a pain because we were starting great and we had good growth and then after three weeks that we couldn't do anything because we needed to wait for the review.
And we lost all our trial users and as we are, especially bootstrapped and have no funding. And now we also have people around, this costs us of course money. So we looked at it and thought, okay, when there is again the LinkedIn display change we need to adapt quickly. So, now we push kind of when it comes to display change more from our service the new update, so this goes pretty quick. And every time there is a display change, maybe it's when our button disappears for half an hour, that's maximum because now our development team is pretty straight after it. Yeah that was the first kind of challenge we had. We mastered it and now it works. And since then, our product is pretty stable. We have a churn of less than 5%. So that's also great. Yeah.
Well, look, as I said, from my perspective, it was fantastic, thanks to Scott Galantly, who is my old business partner that introduced us. And it was just automatic that, yeah you can look at a profile in either, as you said, sales navigator, LinkedIn, bring it straight in , as I said, we use Copper, so it's in there. But the thing that I really loved was that messaging, we do lots of outbound messaging. We've got a very specific way that gets amazing results for clients. But if you're following up on someone, you had to have LinkedIn open and you had to double screen, but it was always, and then because something like HubSpot, PipeDrive, Copper, they allow you to have different types of communication, right? So LinkedIn has a specific message that, or manuals and that's, that's cut down, which means that my team can now better qualify people. That just worked beautifully.
What are some of the case studies or some of the things that you've seen people use, in particular sales people use it with LinkedIn that we may not be aware of?
Yes, so first of all, we knew that we somehow saved time with our tool, but we didn't know how much actually, or how much of a difference it is. So that's why we recently did a lot of case studies with our clients and to see how they actually use the product. And, I mean, we have different features. You can click from a profile and add a new lead to your CRM. You can synchronize your messages. You can have CRM information displayed in LinkedIn profiles. So this is for you, but also for your colleagues because LinkedIn is an individual license use. So you have your account. I have my account, that's it, but you can't use it as a team really, but thanks to leadjet you have now on the profile page, a little snapshot from your CRM display.
So you have the most important information from your CRM, in a LinkedIn profile page. This gives you a great benefit because you live daily on LinkedIn. You do sales nowadays on LinkedIn, and when you browse through different profiles without directly seeing, not only from the profile page, also enlist views, we highlight some names, when there's a purple highlight, you know, this guy is already in my CRM. So this helps you in browsing on LinkedIn, looking for new leads on LinkedIn. And when you're done on the profile page, you see more information from the CRM. It's, this a customer, is this a lead who's in charge with the lead. Okay. Here, Laura, from my team, what did they speak about? What Have they spoken about so far? Okay. Here's the history. So, you know, what's going on before the problem was you use LinkedIn already for social selling, but you didn't have any, or at least your head off sales, they didn't have any chance to look at their BDRs or SDRs too actually, because they couldn't track. As everyone has its individual account, but now thanks to the chat, you can track all the interaction in your CRM and it's way better for your reporting. You see now the successes you have on LinkedIn versus the successes you have via email for outreach, for instance,
And look, I know we've mentioned some sales CRM's but if you go to leadjet.io, will that tell you which ones it's currently integrated with?
Yes, so we are currently restructuring the over page because it was not clear on the first few what CRM's we support that's why we got on our chat, often people saying, Hey, what's the service that you actually support? And we said, Hey, it's actually written on the webpage, but it was not very clear. So, we support at the moment four CRMs. It is SalesForce. The biggest in the name is HubSpot which is coming more from the marketing direction. But now going way more in the CRM space and PipeDrive, we really love Pipedrive. It's a very customizable CRM. You can use it for various industries and Copper, which is the modern approach of a CRM, which is kind of integrated to your G Suite. So when you have new prospects on the email, it recognizes, it automatically creates a new lead. Like we do, we have the same version that you can easily add a new lead from LinkedIn. They do it with G Suite. And that's why, we also love Copper. They've been a great partner from the start. They're the first ones who reached out to us actually. I think after three months of product release.
And that's probably because I was constantly pestering them, head of product, they're going to say, you need to solve this, like be the first to solve this. You don't have a massive competitive advantage. So maybe I had a little hand in doing that when we used to re-sell Copper. But look, I agree like copper, if you're a Gmail client, I know PipeDrive is very good as well. But what I love is now you've got all your LinkedIn information, you've got all your calendar, you've got everything all integrated in the one place. So for me it has been 27 years of sales to have that all in one place just makes a massive difference.
So I look, I could talk to you about, Lead Jet that all day, you know, I'm very passionate about it, but just a little bit, if we step back a little bit just on LinkedIn itself, are you seeing any patterns in the way people are outreaching or any changes in the platform from a sales perspective that could be interesting for everyone listening?
First of all, I think I didn't mention it before, but it's super important on LinkedIn you need to behave, I say that because there are also a lot of automation tools which can be great of course, for connection requests and scale, or for the first message. But you really need to be careful by using these automation tools because automation means robotic behavior on LinkedIn. So what they do is they overuse LinkedIn's API, which LinkedIn does not like all the time, of course. And the algorithm also depends on how you actually do automations. Whether it's cloud or not. It also detects automation systems, so it bans automation systems, but it can also ban you as a user. So you put yourself as a risk, you put your company at risk.
And when you do these automations on LinkedIn, and if it is not liked by LinkedIn. So, here you need to be careful. That's why we don't want to go into this space. We also think personal methods, you can't really automate this because where will we go then? Speaking with robots basically. So this just doesn't make sense. And in some industries it definitely makes sense and for some tasks. And we think that it makes sense to have automations for administrative tasks, because for these tasks you need to lock data, you need to manually enter data here. It's good to kind of have an AI or however you would call it and a virtual assistant on the side who takes care of this and saves you time to have more time actually then for the personal connection, the personal outreach and the messaging, especially.
So, that's why I would really kind of suggest when you do prospecting on LinkedIn, do it in a healthy way.
And just quickly on that way look, you know, relationship based selling, which is like the old ways and sort of come back. It's funny that we went from a relationship . The coke company is all about consultative selling and, and you know, it sorta went then a little bit too far, like you said, now, I think it's coming back. I think COVID step may draw that more. But look, there is now at the moment, there's a new little message that's popping up. So we're recording this in April, or this is coming out in May. I think it's May the 18th, it comes out in 21, but now there's a little limit. For us. It doesn't matter how many messages you send, there is a little limit that pops up and says, do you really know this person? Do you really want to send it? So I think that's the first step in this happening. And look, I totally agree with what you said. So I think that's a rich insight, be personal, what you behave as is really great.
But look, I can talk forever, but we need to start getting into the other section. So I'll make sure that I cover everything here, but just before we do, I'd like to see if you've got the right sales system to get multiple streams of leads. So, you know, I work with a lot of clients and they rely on referrals, which is great, but you know, how do you get multiple streams outside that. So if you go to paulhigginsmentoring.com/pulse, you'll go there. There's nine questions that you can answer in three minutes and then you can go back. Now, this is, I know you're nodding David, but this is for everyone out there listening to this, it's my attempt of an ad that doesn't seem seamless, but it is meant to be seamless.
Yeah, I didn't do it so far. So I will definitely be answering these nine questions.
And the great thing is you get a call from me at the end, based on you. Your questions are really short. So the next section, we're going to go into the Live section. So what are some daily habits sitting there in Paris that, made you highly successful?
The daily habits, for me as I am pretty chaotic, to be honest, I have not always had a very clear structure date. I sit down at the beginning early in the morning of the day and write down, okay, to do this, this and this definitely. And I like the things which go faster in the morning and which are a bit more complicated or after like before lunch or after lunch. Because then I can do all the emails, etcetera in the morning and then go to the other stuff more in the afternoon. So this is a daily habit I really noticed.
I am more than flying around through the day and that's it I mean - You're ready to start out. You need to be everywhere. You need to do everything. Like have you everywhere all the time? Of course we have all the systems and we structure ourselves as Notion. Notion is our system plus Slack. We use these two systems notion, everything is noted down when it comes to a marketing roadmap, product roadmap. We use different techniques, Moscow technique to really prioritize what features we develop next. We have everything broken down in small tasks then in sprints and then in milestones and, sprint is always two weeks long. And then we have a product manager who helps us two days a week really get the connection between marketing and product and this works or product and development, and this works so far great. And that's, that's a daily kind of to do stuff.
Well, look, the next section is the Give section and what say charity or community that you're passionate about and why?
Yes. So I support Plan International. Why? Because, I actually got introduced to them when I was waiting for my train. I'm often waiting for trains cause I'm often on the go and there, I have time. So this woman was very nice and she showed me everything about organization. And it's about, um, having equal rights for children and it was for me kind of a natural thing to go for. And I do just a small, small support on a monthly basis on a subscription basis. Like our tool is also on a subscription basis, so I'm used to that. I know how to do that and that's where I support. Next to that, it's also some local support for my hometown, I'm coming from a small village, basically. So I like to give there as well and support just when it comes to football, because I am a former football player and we'll sit in the second leak, when I was very young and I was so passionate about it. But unfortunately we couldn't, as a small village, we couldn't afford to go to the next leap. We had the success as a team to be ready for the next week as we won kind of first in the league before, but we didn't have the financial means to go for it. And I think football is so great and it helps, for me as a young kid, doing sports helped so much, next to theatre, where I also like to support because when I was in high school and I was 15 years old, my teacher said - Hey, you need to go into Theatre you are born for it. And I was like, no, I'm playing football and tennis. I can't be on stage. And then I don't know, play Romeo and Juliet or whatever. So he said no, no you need to do it. And then I went for it and actually I loved it. And I played for four to five years. Just on the local stage. But it gave me so much to speak in front of people also to get myself into other roles like to understand also a development team. That's also getting into another role and that's where I support children equal rights and more support locally.
Brilliant, brilliant, well, look I'll ask you the last question, which is the big question that is why I leave it to the end, but what impact do you want to leave on the world?
Yeah that's always the big, big question. Before I started Leadjet, actually, it was another project. It's a sustainable project. It was about making returns sustainable. And e-commerce because what we see is that you have, especially in Germany, as we have big players, like Zalando who gives away 100 days of free returns and everyone is buying on per invoice, so they don't need to pay up front. So it's easy to just order like six different colours of one t-shirt and then basically return five of them which is not good for our world. And that's why I was engaged in a project to make sustainable packages, parcels and my big vision was there to see first of all the ecological aspect and to see that we can together as we consume, we consume a lot, but we should really consume sustainable. And this was my big thing. I want to do something here as well. And there was kind of a long lasting impact would have been to see sustainable parcels everywhere because I shop everywhere and I order a lot everywhere every day. So seeing this was kind of my big thing. Then I switched to leadjet, which is great, of course.
We don’t want to have an ecological aspect in the first place here, but we want to have a time aspect. And when I'm just saving time for each sales person every day, I'm more than happy because then we really can concentrate and that is where the relationship or what the relationship is about. And sales is about humans, it's about personal connections always. So we should never forget about it and we should never go into robotic behavior. I think this is important and when we can do a little thing here by saving time and getting more back to these real connections, then I'm already happy. So yes, I don't have a straight answer for you.
Well that is fine and as a client, I'm incredibly happy. And, the fact that I'm a client, I'm also an affiliate partner. So, you know, this is not a sponsored spot at all, but you can go to buildlivegive.com/leadjet. And you can get a 14 day trial. You can also go to the main site as well, which is leadjet.io. There's some great stats that I was reading up on your blog around LinkedIn as well. So if you want to get those go and have a look at the blog, I think it's called LinkedIn/stats, but just go to the blog, you'll get there, but thanks for coming on. Thanks for saving lots of sales people's time around the world and I can't wait to see your future innovations coming out around saving time, but also getting salespeople to deliver better results for everyone around the world. So thanks a lot for coming on today, David.
You're welcome. Thanks a lot for being here. I really appreciate it. And, if your community has any questions regarding our product or also getting back to me feel free. You have my email right here at [email protected] And you always can also reach out on our website. Anyone from the team is almost 24/7 there, because it'd also be your support. And it's somehow as European company at the beginning, a bit tricky because you need to be awake still as delayed and yeah, many greetings to Australia. And, thanks a lot for being here. Thanks, David. Bye. Thanks. Bye-bye
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I really loved that interview with David. I know it went a bit longer. It was his first podcast, but it was absolutely fantastic. I hope you’ve got a lot of value out of this product. It is brilliant, right? leadjet.io. I love it. You probably could see the passion and enthusiasm. I hope you just go ahead and trial it. Remember you can go to buildlivegive.com/leadjet, and you can get a trial there of the product. If you want to find out more, you can just go to leadjet.io, but these are young guys bootstrapped, but they’re really saving salespeople a lot of time. There are around the world, which could be you. So if you want to get a check also a little pulse check on whether you have a sales system, they get you multiple strains of high paying clients. Just go to paulhigginsmentoring.com/pulse. Please take action to Build Live and Give.
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